How are you using tabs?

pinned_survey

Last week, some of you answered a Better Tabs survey that helped us understand how you use tabs in the Opera desktop browser. Thanks for your feedback! For those of you who haven’t answered yet, but want to … it’s still open.

Can you help us again? We would like to know if and how you use pinned tabs. To learn more, we prepared another Pinned Tabs survey.

The feedback you give us in our surveys, forums, bug report wizards and everywhere else helps us a lot in the work we do. So, thanks for your time!

  • Vux777

    but pinned tabs feature is broken…they are not restored upon restart
    or is it just me?
    (just tested in latest stable, flag is enabled by default)

    • Sidney Guioy

      work fine here, what is your “On startup” configuration ?
      Continue where I left off
      Open the start page
      Open a specific page or set of pages

      ( if not the first one, it might be related and you should signal it in your survey answer )

      • Vux777

        Open the start page….
        but that shouldn’t affect pinned tabs
        they need to be restored no matter
        in comodo I have “Open the New Tab page” on startup, and restores pinned tabs

        • Sidney Guioy

          Yup, so that’s a bug, with the “Open the start page” config . You can report it ! :-)

          • Vux777

            lucky me ツ

          • Vux777

            DNA-20926

        • Nekomajin42

          It should be optional.

  • Igor Tarasov

    First survey had a really harsh limit on checkbox option select. I was about to select 8 activities. They all are important for me, not 3 of them.

    • Hunk

      Yea, the same here. I’ve checked 6 and than was forced to select only 3. Come on, Opera was always a browser with a lot of options and opportunities.That’s why it was so convenient. So, this survey really looks like the new Opera. Less options, less features.

      • thorbenb

        The idea behind only selecting the most important three is to arrive at a valid ranking eventually. We also hoped this could be easier for users. I am not sure if we reached that goal, we already reevaluated and improved ourselves in the second survey.

        Thanks for filling out the survey btw!

        • Paczus

          I think the problem was that a lot of those stories seemed very similar so it was hard to limit the answers to just 3 of them.

          • http://www.tbochenek.de thorbenb

            Some of them were similar by design so we could understand in which way similar problems are solved most of the time. I see why this confused people.

            This won’t be the last survey, we will try to offer more clear choices next time.

          • Laviic

            Why not use a “Rate these on a scale from 0 to 5″? They also give you a clear ranking and allow the user to clearly specify his interests!

          • http://www.tbochenek.de thorbenb

            That is more or less what we did in the latest survey about pinned tabs.

          • Laviic

            Thats not really what i meant. I meant to give EVERY item the a scale from 0 to 5. Like this: “Item A: 0,1,2,3,4,5; Item B: 0,1,2,3,4,5; Item C: 0,1,2,3,4,5″ and you choose how important the item is individually. So there can be multiple items with a value of 5. If Item A and Item B are both super important to me, i would give them both a 5. Item C might not be that important, so i would give it a 2, etc.

          • http://www.tbochenek.de thorbenb

            No really, this is what we did in the latest survey ;)

          • Laviic

            I don’t really see the similarity, but oh well… Thanks anyways for taking the time to respond ;)

          • https://christoph142.wordpress.com/ Christoph142

            There’s a second survey that @thorbenb:disqus is referring to (featured post) in case you missed that ;)

          • Laviic

            Thank you, but i got that :) Still i see no similarity between something like this for example (which is what i meant): http://www.serviceuntitled.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/picture-2.jpg

          • senna_4ever

            i think this method better

    • Veger

      How can I decide what tells the ‘best story’ on how I use tabs if about 8 of these stories are the *exact* reasons why I use the tabs..?!

      • II_ARROWS

        Well, technically there are 3 stories… the only difference is the purpose.
        For example:
        “When searching on the web, I want to gather possible answers, so I can find what I want among them”

        It’s no different in any way from:
        “When searching on the web, I want the list of results to be available until I found what I want, so I can find what I want”

        OR: “When monitoring something (e.g. mail), I want to put it aside, but have continuous access to it, so I can periodically check whether something requires my attention”
        and: “When checking a website often, I want to keep it open and ready, so that I can go back to it quickly and easily”

        • thorbenb

          I can see why you think they are the same, they are similar in nature, but there are differences.

          Let’s compare the first two you mentioned:
          (1) “When searching on the web, I want to gather possible answers, so I can find what I want among them”
          (2) “When searching on the web, I want the list of results to be available until I found what I want, so I can find what I want”

          In (1) a user “gathers” results, e.g. by opening them all in tabs. He then checks these results (e.g. the tabs) sequentially to get what he wants. In (2) the user only wants the list of results to be available. That could mean you just click on a results, check it and go back choose another one if this wasn’t what you are looking for.

          • II_ARROWS

            OK, well… I ALWAYS do both… until the results seems too vague to be useful and I decide to open the last in the same tab.

            I started to write the example about “search” and “compare item”, but it’s wrong because you could introduce an easier side-by-side behavior… In that case I usually use a new window.

          • thorbenb

            The way people use search engines is actually very interesting. I always directly follow a result-link and come back if it really isn’t what I found. To me, opening interesting results in new tabs seems to be more work.

            This is why we need to do surveys, because people use a browser in about a thousand different ways, even if you compare on such a meta level.

          • II_ARROWS

            No, it’s fast because when I don’t find the “I feel lucky” result, I click “a lot” of links with the middle mouse button, depending on the vagueness of the result and the topic.

            When I’ve done, the first link has already been loaded (or it is about to end), so I can check it without wasting any time.

            When I’ve finished reading it, I can move to the next result (just closing the actual tab if it’s of no use), which is already loaded.

          • http://www.tbochenek.de thorbenb

            Ok, I understand. I guess it depends somewhat on how fast your internet connection is ;)

          • Ian Tompsett

            Opera should not be one of the first to forget that most people in the world still have a relatively slow connection! Waiting for pages to load is still a pain in 2014 :-)

          • http://www.tbochenek.de thorbenb

            Don’t interpret too much into my answers; I talked about my personal way to use a browser.

          • Ian Tompsett

            Point taken.

          • Ian Tompsett

            In the past I would have followed your behaviour of following the link in the same page, when history navigation was a thing. These days though we have to reload the same *ahem* page every time we go back to it, meaning it’s quicker to open the link in a new page and close it if it’s not what we want – arriving instantly back where we started. Of course, opening links in new pages was also much easier in old Opera as you could mouse down on them – one of my biggest pet hates is clicking on a link and having absolutely no idea whether it will open in the same page or a new one! Why is that so random? So anyway, I have to right-click on it and choose from limited options instead.

            OFF TOPIC: In old Opera you had complete control over how a new tab opened: here, there, background, foreground – using mouse gestures or clickwheels or mouse buttons. It all felt so natural. I’m a little surprised that given Opera’s history with tabs that it hasn’t made managing them a priority in new Opera.

          • Caoimhín Ó Donnaíle

            I too hate clicking on links and having no idea whether they will open in the same tab, a new tab or a new window. The culprit is target=_blank, which some websites write into the link because they think that they know better than you whether you want a new tab/window or not. And some browsers interpret target=_blank to mean open in a new tab, and others interpret it to mean open in a new window (yeuch!), so if you use different browsers you have no idea which of the three possibilities you are going to get. This is the kind of thing which should be left to the user to control.

            The websites have some justification, though, because opening a link in a new tab using Ctrl+Click and select is so fiddly, and then the new Opera doesn’t even make the new tab current; you have to go and do that as well. Things were just *perfect* in the old Opera, where Shift+Click opened the link in a new tab. All browsers should use this. Your little finger can hover over Shift as you are browsing and you can make instantaneous choices (and close unfruitful tabs just as quickly with a mouse gesture).

            Another matter of lesser importance. Right-click currently offers you a choice of “Open link in new tab” and “Open link in new window”. I think it should have a third choice, “Open link in same tab” – to get round those horrible sites which use target=_blank. OK, you can close the tab you have just left if you want to reduce the number of tabs, but then you loose all the history which went with it. “Open link in same tab” would get round this.

          • Krasen Ivanov

            “This is why we need to do surveys, because people use a browser in about a thousand different ways, even if you compare on such a meta level.”

            So whats the point of the survey then ?
            To see that most people use the browser one way and then kill the other way for the rest of the users ? (like with bookmarks and dash/ or apparantly like tabs and stacked tabs that went missing. (hahahah sorry))

          • http://www.tbochenek.de thorbenb

            > “So whats the point of the survey then? To see that most people use the browser one way and then kill the other way for the rest of the users?”

            The best user interfaces focus on what users want to do most of the time and do that very well. Anytime you focus on something you are taking away attention from something else. This is why it’s important that we make solid decisions what to focus on.
            Note that I said “focus” not “through away everything else”.

          • http://www.tbochenek.de thorbenb

            Oh, and when I said “people use a browser in about a thousand different ways” this was of course an assumption previously not backed up by data. It’s okay to make assumptions but better to have data. These surveys give us data.

    • Alex

      We all want everything. They want to know what we want the most.

      • http://www.tbochenek.de thorbenb

        This is actually a good way to sum up why we asked for just the three most important stories :) Eventually this gives us a ranking of which stories matter most.

        • Igor Tarasov

          Actually, I could not choose which stories are most important, I’ve tried selecting some, but finally ended up with randomly selecting 3 stories out of 5 principal ones. Not sure if this was what you *really* want.

          • http://www.tbochenek.de thorbenb

            Thanks for providing feedback. It’s not what we really want, but statistically it’s fine if you randomly select something.
            I understand though that this survey question was hard to answer, I promise improvements for the future surveys!

  • https://vivaldi.net/unity/profile/chas4/6-blog Chas4

    I have already answered, anyone want to play count the tabs? https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BoIUp0sIcAAYSiH.jpg:large

  • Bojan Kerkez

    The thing I never liked about pinned tabs (and why I almost never use them) is that the pinned page is not permanent. I think it would be more logical if the address in a pinned tab always stayed the same and all the links clicked in it opened in a new tab.

  • Hunk

    Visual and side tabs are very welcome.

  • Babua Sheni

    the biggest problem is that if i open private window and than accidentally close main windows before closing private than all my tabs are lost

    there may be a tabs that i havenot opened for a while so it is hard to find them in history

    • Marko Koivuniemi

      Good to hear that I am not the only one doing this. ;-)

    • https://christoph142.wordpress.com/ Christoph142

      I reported this as DNA-7151 (almost one year ago) …

      • Rafael Luik

        I can’t reproduce it in latest 23 Dev.

        • https://christoph142.wordpress.com/ Christoph142

          Just double-checked this with 22 Next.
          The issue is solved for me.
          Anyone still seeing this? (I guess you just assumed it’s still an issue since it’s not that fun to try it out again)

  • Dziple

    Hey guys :) I know that you have lot on your plate but could you improve the style of the tabs. Like in Mozilla. They look so cool :)

    • escruting

      By jesus joseph, mary and the holy spirit, please DON’T.

      • David

        Real themes like in opera 12 might be an option…

    • Marmaduke

      Oh god please no.

    • http://alexey.shpakovsky.ru alex_shpak

      let’s *not* start flame wars about recent style changes of other browsers ;)

    • Alex

      I like general tab handling in Firefox (Tab Groups to be precise). However I hate their recent visual update.
      Sticking with Opera so far.

    • Piotr Karol Marek Żółtowski

      NO!

    • Dziple

      OK OK don’t kill me yet :) I didn’t say copy it. I said make something cool. Even chrome have a little cut on the angle in their tabs. Just saying :)

  • http://www.operaturkiye.net/ Mağruf Çolakoğlu

    Thanks for listenning us…

    • thorbenb

      Thanks for giving us valuable feedback on how you use a browser!

  • petval

    Current tab problems are absence of rows and no thumbnails.

    Without the chance to split tabs to more rows now with lot of tabs when the tab width shrinks so much that favicon and at least one word of the page title are not visible and without hover thumbnail we are forced to look through them one by one. It’s not usable at all and the reason I am now on Firefox with Tab Mix Plus add on because there are too many incompatibility issues with v12 now…

    I use pinning for maximum of 2 tabs and it works fine.

  • Piotr Karol Marek Żółtowski

    I’m interested in old features of Opera 12.

    • http://przemekzawadzki.tumblr.com/ Przemek Zawadzki

      Bookmarks sync still does not work above 12.XX.
      Opera works really hard on losing users…

      • Piotr Karol Marek Żółtowski

        Progress in losing users so much ;_;

      • http://alexey.shpakovsky.ru alex_shpak

        guys, this post is about tabs, it seems

        • Piotr Karol Marek Żółtowski

          So what? In the past Opera care about users and try to build the best browser with their users. Now, when old CEO and some guys left from Opera, you don’t know what to do, I think.

          • Alexandre Cavaco

            At least they seem to be trying to address the users’ needs.
            If they weren’t they wouldn’t be asking surveys about tabs… I guess it isn’t possible to develop everything as fast as users’ liked (including myself).

        • romath

          Well, how about the Tab Bar at the bottom of the page, as we have in O12?

          • thorbenb

            Could you explain a bit why you think this would improve your browsing experience?

          • romath

            Three obvious reasons come to mind, at least for those of use over 6′ tall: 1) natural head position in front of a monitor is more down than up, 2) less mouse movement, and 3) coordinates with having taskbar about in Windows, which is a common location.

          • Rafael Luik

            Touchscreens / OS on tablets/hybrids.
            IE11 Modern UI mode has tabs on the bottom. I think they might be easier to touch (closer to your fingertips), you should consider someone at Opera should study that.

          • http://www.tbochenek.de thorbenb

            While this is probably true (“easier to touch”), I personally think that having a dedicated browser for tablet devices is a better option than adding touch features to desktop browsers and running it on tablets.

          • Rafael Luik

            But… Win8+ Pro on tablets/hybrids… Other OSs… Convergence… :)

          • http://alexey.shpakovsky.ru alex_shpak

            Taskbar usually is also at the bottom, so that would make sense. Like nested tabs, or something

          • http://www.tbochenek.de thorbenb

            Thinks at the outer edges are easier to reach. If you put it above something functional (e.g. task bar) more coordination is needed to actually “hit” the thing you wanted to.

          • Vux777

            yes, that’s why sides are convenient for extra features. Just pull mouse far left or right (scrollbars are kinky) and click anywhere to fire-up feature. That’s why sidebars (if done right) are so cool. They can be targeted without looking…

          • http://alexey.shpakovsky.ru alex_shpak

            for rchl – maybe, but not for me :)

        • http://przemekzawadzki.tumblr.com/ Przemek Zawadzki

          …and all we can do is redirect unimportant tabs (or other) discussions into to something that really matters: Opera’s survival! :)

          • Piotr Karol Marek Żółtowski

            Yes, you should move your mail to Opera Mail and change browser to Chrome. Ever since they released Opera 15 and don’t have cool programmers with old cool CEO, they don’t care about users. They think, that they know what users want, which is stupid. But we, real Opera 12 fans, can wait for Otter Browser or try to improve Firefox, IE or Chrome.

          • http://www.tbochenek.de thorbenb

            > “They think, that they know what users want”
            I beg to differ, we do this surveys because we want to find out what users want.

          • Piotr Karol Marek Żółtowski

            LOL, I don’t see that in your newest test and stable builds of new Opera. Maybe I’m blind?

    • Saskatchewan

      When I saw this question: «In your words: How could we improve “Pinned Tabs”?», I thought immediately: why would you want to improve pinned tabs? Let the developers spend this time on bringing the old features back! :-)

  • EnvyAndroid

    In opera 15, I miss the window/tab manager from opera 12!

  • David

    I am missing the tab stacking feature or the option to put the tabs to the left site of the window. A amount of tabs like in this screenshot would be impossible to handle in the current version. (tab stacks are opened for this screenshot)

    • Jack O’Neill

      Oh! Yeah! This is the main cause why I still use the old opera. The new one cannot handle more then about 10-20 at a time.

    • Evang

      WOW!! This feature is soo cool!!! I’m using Opera for about 5 years, but found this awesome feature only now!!
      Thanx man!

    • rufu2

      Have you tried the “Windows” panel in O12? It’s even cooler and more powerful than just the tabs. I’d love to have that functionality back.

      • David

        Wow, this is feature I didn’t know. Very cool. Thanks for the hint!

        A shame that this cool feature is so hidden. And sadly, that this is a another missing tool in the current Opera.

        Edit: With this option the tab-bar might be dispensable for some people. =D

        • rufu2

          Yes, I think with a panel like that, and keyboard navigation and mouse gestures, the tab bar could be really minimized or completly hidden… that would freak some “noobs” out ;) but it might be a pretty cool power user feature.

          • alexvoda

            Since you didn’t know about the “Windows” panel you also might not know this.
            You can open panels in tabs. If you open Bookmarks in a tab and have Windows in a panel, you can drag multiple tabs from the Windows panel into Bookmarks and bookmark them all at once.

  • DD64

    Tab Stacking,
    Tab preview on mouseover,
    Open new tab when double-clicking tab-bar

    • Michal Fizek

      Yes, unfortunatelly, this is killer feature for me. I hate to say this, but i’m moving to firefox, because there is plugin for tab stacking.
      Unfortunatelly after all these years, where i loved opera – i have to go away. 12.XX is getting old, and it’s already unsusable on heavy JS sites(even gmail).

      • CrashNBurn71

        Tree Style Tabs (left or right) seems to be much better than the various tab-stacking options/extensions – unless you don’t like vertical tabs. Also works well with Tab Utilities, Tab Kit gestures, OmniSideBar, Classic Theme Restorer, PrefBar, Customizable Shortcuts, RequestPolicy, Session Manager, Status-4-Evar, Super Drag, Tab Renamizer 0.9.9, User Style Manager, Personal Menu, CLEO and FEBE.

        Also Firefox also has tab grouping, and various extensions to handle that in different ways.

  • Vuppe

    I like how everyone else is having pinned tabs now, following Opera.

    I miss tab stacking something fierce, though. That was super innovative and it got lost in the shuffle to being just a Chromium build.

  • Dmitry Kirin

    Took both surveys. My main wish is: make tab bar and bookmark bar wrappable, with height adjustable using mouse. Also, selecting tabs and saving them to an SD folder could be useful, but I admit I can live without it.

    What I forgot to add and what is more important: make double click on tab close it, double click on empty area open a new tab, and right click on “+” do Paste & Go, the way it is in Maxthon. Also, upon Paste & Go, if the last tab is empty/SD, open the link in it, without opening another tab.

  • dave

    Vertical tabs. See Tree style Tabs extension for firefox.

  • Cryio

    This survey makes no sense to me.

    “Have you heard of pined tabs ?”

    What’s this, 2009?

    • thorbenb

      We interviewed people before conducting this survey. It turns out that there is a significant amount of people that don’t know about pinned tabs. Keep in mind that most blog readers are advanced and interested users. Is your mother using Opera? Does she know about pinned tabs? I am pretty sure mine doesn’t ;)

      • Cryio

        My mom has troubles remember where the new tab button is. So you have a point. Kinda extreme one, but still

  • Krisztián Lengyel

    Hello Opera Team,

    Good to see these surveys, I hope we can expect some new features soon. :) After finishing them, I thought to express some missing stuff from the current versions according to tabs.

    About tabs, I really lack a feature to quickly switch between tabs (even between opened windows too) like the tab switcher in Opera 12. If it would be extended for the opened windows too, it would be awesome. I keep opening links with “Open link private window” and I often have several opened windows, and really hard to find the required window with the required tab.

    For me another deficiency in Opera 15+ is the missing function to clear the list of closed tabs/windows. After some hours of browsing most of them totally useless, since probably I don’t want to re-open the old tabs/windows, and restart is required to clear it.

  • Alacran

    Perhaps the most usefull yet not implemented features in Chromium based Opera: Tab stacking, tab preview on mouse over and the ability to move tab bar to bottom of the screen.

    • Calypso

      Moving tabs is the one I need too! I want tabs at the bottom of the screen, my taskbar is on top!

    • http://www.tbochenek.de thorbenb

      Could you explain a bit why you think a tab bar at the bottom would improve your browsing experience?

      • Cqoicebordel

        I will reply for my case, because I’m desperatly searching for a browser allowing putting the tab bar at the bottom of the screen.
        It’s easy, very often what I do. Switching app is at the bottom (in KDE, Windows and Mac at least), and so, the mouse (or the eyes) don’t have a long way to go to switch between everything (apps, web-apps, web pages).
        It’s easy, switching is at the bottom !

        • Naishee

          Firefox or Pale Moon with TabMixPlus lets you put the tab bar at the bottom. It’s what I do.
          And the reason for doing it is, among other things, it keeps UI consistent with Windows, tab bar being conceptually similar to the task bar. Also, it prevents the browser from feeling top heavy (yes, this matters to me. UI matters).
          Plus I feel its easier to see them when on bottom, getting an overview.
          This is why I’ve never managed to use Chrome for any period of time: tab bar on top is impossible for me to adjust to. Literally. And the reason why I can’t really ever go back to Opera, since I believe it is technically impossible with the new engine?

      • A. R.

        I can’t believe that the customization possibilities available on 12.x seems to have been thrown to trash can. Why is that feature trashed from the start?

        Customization, and features, are the key to successful browsing experience.

      • Tams80

        I don’t know why there needs to be an explanation; that person thinks tabs (or any suggested feature) is best the way they suggested. It may be all in their mind, but that should be taken into account.

        Please don’t try to ‘educate’ us as to the most efficient and useful way to use a browser. You may well objectively be right, but that’s not how the world works.

        • http://www.tbochenek.de thorbenb

          Hi, thanks for your feedback. I don’t want to be disrespectful, but this is also not the way the world works ;)

          There are basically two ways to justify adding a feature to any software (unless you have customers who pay for that, but even then this is kind of true):

          There is either
          1. a logically sound step-by-step explanation to why this feature is necessary and improves the user experience of a significant part of the user-base
          2. or there is data that clearly shows the feature improves the user experience of a significant part of the user-base

          Listening to people here in the blog can give us the first, the study can maybe give us the second.

          I can totally understand why people are impatient with us (I am myself), but hold on a bit longer: there will be interesting features coming in the future.

      • Alacran

        Sure, my programs icons are on the taskbar, if I want to switch it’s much closer from tab to taskbar. Now, I have to travel from top to bottom.

    • Ian Tompsett

      I too am impatiently waiting (perhaps in vain) for some past features to re-emerge, such as tab preview, and stacking, but to be fair some of the new features are good too, for instance Stash does alleviate the need somewhat to stack tabs, which in chromium is not such a good idea anyway: let’s face it, the days of hundreds of tabs open at once died with Presto. Chromium is too resource hungry and the steps that have been taken toward reducing the number of tabs open/running at once (such as lazy session loading) are a step in the right direction. BUT, what old Opera users miss most of all is customisability – this was the number one feature, not any function in particular.

  • ank

    Well, the “new” Opera is a huge disappointment, but I guess you already know that by now :)

    I’m curious, why did you sabotage your own browser?
    I see that there’s an update to 12.17, so I guess nobody stole the code and left. Did your programmers leave?

  • iG0Lka

    please – make vertical list names tabs!!!1!!

  • http://www.tbochenek.de thorbenb

    Many of you mentioned vertical tabs … could you explain in more detail how you envision the feature and in which way it would improve your browsing experience?

    • ayespy

      Tabs stacked vertically (on the right in my case) has a number of advantages.

      For wide-format screens, which are in the majority now, it makes the most efficient use of space – using otherwise completely wasted space at the sides of the screen where there is no page content, and vacating space at the top of the screen so that more page content can be shown.

      Rather than making tabs smaller and smaller as tabs are added, making them more and more difficult to identify right up until it is actually IMPOSSIBLE to distinguish one from the next, the tabs remain a uniform length, easily readable, all the time. You can open thirty or more tabs, and be able to read them all easily.

      A tab “tree” becomes possible, whereby tabs opened from another tab can be indented and arranged under it. The ideal “tree” implementation can be turned on and off.

      If/when visual tabs or tab previews are implemented, having the thumbnails at the side will normally cover only ads, or nothing. Vertical arrangement of visual tabs is EXTREMELY workable.

      Last, my workflow is managed so that my eyes track right and left, scanning for the next element to access. Vertical tabs are ideal for this.

    • Leif Roar Moldskred

      A bit of an aside, but I do wish you wouldn’t focus so much on “your browsing experience.” I mean, I know that they’re called “web browsers” and that browsing the web is still the greater part of their use, but more and more browsers are used as a platform to run applications (and, for that matter, games) in.

      I don’t really think of juggling half a dozen Jira tickets in two different projects while cross-referencing two different e-mails and updating a spreadsheet in Google docs as “a browsing experience” and while it’s _nice_ if the browser makes it simple and convenient to read BBC News every morning or Stash new Discoveries, that’s not what determines which browser I will use. It’s the browser’s utility as a platform for _work_ that is _decisive_. I can _live_ with a browser that is a little slow loading pages or that has a clunky Flash plugin. I _can’t_ live with a browser that it’s hard to _work_ in.

      It’s like when buying a car. It’s _nice_ if a car has a comfortable seat and a great stereo — after all, you spend all your time in the car sitting and much of it listening to music. However, if the car refuses to start if it’s below freezing, that doesn’t matter. I’d _like_ comfortable seats and good music, but I _have to_ get to work on time even on cold days.

      • ayespy

        Interestingly, it is my use of the browser as a WORK platform ( but NOT to run apps) that makes side tabs an important feature of the UI. The fact that I need to fit as much data on the screen as practicable without scrolling, and the fact that I need, during a single job, to jump back and forth between two to five websites repeatedly, and the fact I am continually scanning back and forth left and right to access email, web content, and changing pages is what makes side tabs critical to me.

        (My setup is email always open on the left, web page in the middle, tabs on the right. If I could do it, I would also have bookmarks bar on the right, like I used to.)

        Interestingly, when I had only 3:4 screens to work on, side tabs seemed a wasted of valuable screen real estate. Now that I work all the time on a 16:9 screen, the LACK of side tabs is a waste of valuable screen real estate.

      • http://www.tbochenek.de thorbenb

        Nice comparison. I would argue thought that the car which refuses to start has a pretty bad “driving experience” ;)

        • A. R.

          Opera 15 was a horrible launch. And version 21-23 hasn’t yet proved being much better than 15, not to mention 12.

    • Dmitry Kirin

      I’ve never used vertical tabs, so I’ll speak as a kind of an outside observer here. I think it’s the same story as with Windows Start Menu. When it is set vertically, there’s an important feature: one can set its width, to make all app buttons titles readable. When it’s horizontal, app buttons are squeezed into icons. So people who keep a significant number of apps running at all times arrange it vertically. Those I’ve seen doing so constantly have multiple Windows Explorers, browsers, Excels, Paint, Visual Studio and an app developed within it, etc. And I noticed their browsing style was quite the same: it seemed like they didn’t like closing tabs at all. Only computer restart or browser crash would force them to close what looked like a complete mess to me.

    • Hunk

      Vertical tabs in Opera 12 helped me to use my wide monitor more practically. Modern web-pages generally optimized for about a half of the screens so side tabs use this free space plus visual tabs mixed with side tabs not only looks cool but it far easy to find every tab i need.
      Really missing this feature (visual tabs) in other browsers.

    • David

      On 16:9 Monitores, which should be a standard for a user which work a lot at computers, it’s a waste of unused screen areas.

      At work (web developer) I have 2 browsers opened the whole time. Opera 12 (Primary and research browser. Screenshot in my comment above) and the actual Firefox (developer browser).

      Firefox has the Tab-Group-Feature which helps to work at multiple projects without closing the all tabs.

      On Opera 12 I can stack related tabs. Pinned tabs help me to save important stuff.

      A mix from both worlds would be my dream. =D

  • Laviic

    I don’t check the Desktopteam Blog regularly any more, so sadly i missed the first survey. But still, i think giving surveys is a BRILLIANT idea! I gives direct feedback that can be automatically analyzed and also gives the user the good feeling that their opinion is still important. Or at least it gives that illusion ;) If you honor the survey results is up to you guys!

    • http://www.tbochenek.de thorbenb

      The feedback definitely helps us making better decisions. But of course I can’t promise you that every comment will be turned into a feature.

      • Piotr Karol Marek Żółtowski

        Change your thinking or you will not get higher in browser usage :)

      • senna_4ever

        thorbenb, the only thing that makes me afraid if you make the same bad result that was opera 15, when the concept of the browser was based on in previous surveys.

        • http://www.tbochenek.de thorbenb

          It’s important to note that the Opera 15 GUI was build from scratch. One has to start somewhere. We are addressing a lot of things we learned about in the last month now. Judge us by the end of the year.

          • senna_4ever

            i know, bu I was talking about the bookmarks decision. You tried to become speed dial as bookmarks, but this showed it is not so simple like this was.

  • icetom

    I never use pinned tabs. I want proper bookmarks like in 12.xx instead and tab stacking like before.
    This is focusing in the wrong direction, the survey shows it. I wonder what weird feature you will make out of the survey.

    • http://www.tbochenek.de thorbenb

      > “Or how does asking about pinned tabs matter?”
      Interviews showed that there are many people using pinned tabs. With this survey we can find out if that is true for a much broader audience. it seems you are not one of the many people that use pinned tabs ;)

      • Sho

        I understand you guys have a business to run and need these focus group surveys to avoid spending resources on developing features that the majority of your users won’t ever touch, but I just wanted to point out that with that attitude, you will always follow others and never be able to innovate like you did in the good old Opera days. Please, take this as a good-hearted critique.

        • http://www.tbochenek.de thorbenb

          Thanks for your thoughts, but I don’t think this is true. Let’s say we would get results that show clearly that people only pin web-apps. Now that is an inside one could come up with innovative solutions for ;)

          These surveys are targeted to show where people have problems using the browser. Once you know the problem you can come up with an innovative solution. This is not about following at all. If we only wanted to follow others, we wouldn’t do any research.

          • anonym

            the problem is more or less, that old opera users do have the feeling that you simply discarded every research you have done before…

          • http://www.tbochenek.de thorbenb

            Well, let’s hope we can prove you otherwise this time :-)

  • kevinwang2

    I want to reproduce my answer to “what’s wrong” here:

    “History of closed tabs. Google Chrome offers a list of recently closed tabs, while in Opera the only way to recover recent tabs is to “reopen last closed tabs” over and over again until I hit the one I want.”

    • Vux777
      • kevinwang2

        Sorry, I’m talking about Opera for Mac.

  • Matt Turner

    I use pinned tabs an indication that I found something interesting on that page. Let’s say I’m researching for a new car and find an interesting site. I pin that page as a reminder to read it later. What I really miss is tab stacking. Tab Stacks allowed for many tabs grouped by theme. I could have all Confluence pages in one stack. All social networking in another etc. IMO Stacking is way useful than pinning. When I was using Opera 12 pinned tabs were temporary and stacking was more permanent

    • http://www.tbochenek.de thorbenb

      Thanks for your feedback. Could you explain why you stacked the tabs and not bookmarked them?

      • https://plus.google.com/+MattTurner-ThShdwKnws Matt Turner

        You’re Welcome. During the day I use several Confluence pages. I have several tabs open related to web development. I have google + and twitter pages open. I have several work specific portal pages that I use. So I stack them so they are easier to find and easier for me to manage. I use bookmarks to save sites that I think are interesting but don’t visit everyday. Let me know if you need more info. :-)

      • https://plus.google.com/+MattTurner-ThShdwKnws Matt Turner

        Also my stacks usually change depending on what I’m working on. Tab Stacking is also the only reason I still use Opera 12

      • Leif Roar Moldskred

        Because bookmarks are akin to a filing cabinet: you take a moment to index a document and file it away so that you can easily find it again at a later date when you need them again.

        Pinning, as Matt Turner uses it, is more akin to sticking a document onto a stationery spindle so he’ll remember to read them again later that day.

        And stacking is akin to organising documents into stacks or into separate document boxes on your desktop.

        You don’t file away your ToDo list — the point of a ToDo list is that it’s in your face so that you don’t forget about it. The point of a filing cabinet is to _allow_ you to forget about stuff and still find it when you need it.

        • Ian Tompsett

          This.
          But, Stash is also somewhat useful in this regard, while not so in your face, it’s not such a disaster as bookmarking that which you need again soon.
          All in all, I miss stacking.

  • http://colector.ucoz.com/ Teodor Cristian Trusca

    Ok just finished the survey with pinned tabs should be fixed and have new color and be more smaller and be more easy to make them pinned by just double click them and voilà :) and be pinned right were they are not go at the first tab.
    More detail in the survey keep and add more feature until you make it like the 12.17 version and you be nr.1

  • disinvis

    Please, add TabGrouping!

  • Didit A. Pamungkas

    When will tab stacking added to opera???..
    Linux version too..
    T.T

  • mpetv

    Chance to have tabs in rows, tab thumbnails and stacking, new Opera currently desperately lacks these.
    In my use case, when I research something I can get to 50-70 opened tabs easily and with this number even vertical tabs aren’t that helpful. If you implement vertical tabs and not rows at least add a way how to select more tabs at once and move them all to a new separate window. But I prefer just one Opera window so please add the rows as well :)

    And add theming so I can make the browser dark with light fonts it’s so much easier for eyes in long hours & long term use.

    Thanks.

  • AlexBrtn

    What about other languages?

    • http://www.tbochenek.de thorbenb

      If you are referring to translations of the survey, I am afraid there are none.

      • AlexBrtn

        bad

  • AlexBrtn

    In short, how do was 12.** and don’t ask stupid questions :)

    • https://www.aeyoun.com/ Daniel Aleksandersen

      Have you tried the Classic Tabs extensions?

      • Jernej Simončič

        That fixes some of the problems, but I’m still missing the ability to minimize tabs by clicking on them (that was perfect for comparing 2 pages – just repeatedly click on the tab).

  • http://mjmartino.eu mjmartino

    When back Tab Stacking ??

  • Sion

    I often use the very tab.

    I switch the tab well wheel rotation and right mouse click.

  • Oskar

    Found out about pinned tabs through this, thank you very much, this will make my life better!

    • Piotr Karol Marek Żółtowski

      LOL

  • Courtney Miles

    … I really miss the order of which Ctrl+Tab switches between tabs.

    It makes it really awkward to switch continuely between two tabs. I can’t figure out why Chrome thought this would be an improvement over the behaviour we are used to with Alt+Tab.

    Also, when opening a link in a new tab, I can’t predict where that tab will appear. It’s like a puzzle to understand why it opened 3 positions to the right. In Opera 12 they open on the far right, every time, there’s no guessing or surprises.

    • http://www.tbochenek.de thorbenb

      Thanks for sharing! Tab creation placement could be something to follow up upon.

      • aiphed

        Excuse me for asking but you are a dev and you don’t know how Opera 12 and the previous versions of it were actually working? Do we really need to write down all the obvious things from Opera Presto so that you can think about them?

        • http://www.tbochenek.de thorbenb

          Thanks for your answer. You misinterpreted what I said. I am well aware of O12 features, but I was under the impression that opening child-tabs right of their parent is a very good idea. So, it’s interesting that people state otherwise and maybe there is the need for more research on our side.

          • aiphed

            I said that because you did that in other posts also, asking people how the “x” feature, which is already present in Opera 12 and older, would be needed and why, although you devs should already know that, since you made those features available in Presto Opera not without a reason.

            Concerning tabs I’ll try to make clear what Courtney Miles said by giving you an example: if you visit a site and let’s say you are interested in 5 links, you middle click them and open them all in the backround for reading them after you ‘ve read the parent page. Going to the 2nd tab you find there 2 additional links that you find interesting to read, so you middle click them also, but first of all (in your mind memory) you want to read the remaining 4 you’ve already opened. So you expext those 2 new links to be added in the waiting line of the previous 5 and not interrupt that serial logic.

          • http://www.tbochenek.de thorbenb

            This seems to almost only make sense in situations where you use your tabs mainly as a ToDo (or ToRead)-List, but if you work with a lot of tabs, to me it seems to get more confusing if you don’t oben children close to the parent.

          • Rafael Luik

            I have to state otherwise of the otherwise, child tabs are better opening the way they do now.

    • Ian Tompsett

      This was a massive issue for me too, though these two things should help you in the meantime:

      opera://flags/#activation-order-tab-cycling

      https://addons.opera.com/en-gb/extensions/details/classic-tabs/?display=en

      • Courtney Miles

        Thankyou! I should have thought to look around for options and extensions… I guess I just expect new opera to behave like old Opera by default.

  • https://vivaldi.net/unity/profile/chas4/6-blog Chas4

    Tab another answer

  • Peter Henkel

    Give pinned tabs their own session. In other words, copy Firefox. As soon as you do this, I’m all yours.

  • aiphed

    When is the other, the major one survey coming, about the features the users of this blog really liked and were using in the previous Opera (Presto)? Because most of the people here never used the usage statistics sending feature, thus you really don’t have a clue what the real users of Opera were using.

  • Ian Tompsett

    I really, really miss ‘click tab to minimise’.
    It was a really handy way of quickly switching focus between two tabs with the mouse, and in the absence of scroll-wheel tab cycling it’s even more sorely missed. Basically, I have to use the keyboard instead, and that only works after changing the cycling order in flags.

  • Fallon

    Better TABS Survey.
    * What keeps me from having more Tabs open?
    -1- Tabs do not double up into the number of rows I would like to enable.
    -2- Bookmarks Bar could have a Sidebar display, because of screen space.
    * Am I happy with how Tabs work in the Opera Browser?
    1- ‘Click on Tab to minimize’ should be re-introduced. Jumping between Active Tab and last Active Tab (and thus between pages of interest) is useful.
    -2- Opera Speed Dial could have its own Tabs, with import-export backup option.
    -3- Tabs as listed in Opera Task Manager, could be saved as a session in a session list. Developing Task Manager into a Session Manager.
    -4- Wouldn’t mind the return of some other Tab options from old Opera.
    (sorry for posting this first under Opera Developer update 23.0.1508.0)

  • LOLzer

    Opera’s tab management is crappy. Multiple tab selection and tab
    scrolling are must-haves. I also don’t understand why middle click
    doesn’t work on back, forward and reload buttons on Opera when it does
    in every other Chromium-based browser. Having a button for recently
    closed tabs (natively, without extensions) would be nice too, but I can
    live without it.

  • Mithaldu

    Hey guys, thanks for not actually asking the people who are voting with their feet about your tabs by sticking with Opera 12. Still, to have an answer: Chromera sucks at tabs because right-mouse + scroll still doesn’t switch between tabs.

    • http://www.tbochenek.de thorbenb

      Thanks for the feedback. I don’t quite understand, why do you think we are not asking the right people? So far it seems a lot of O12 users answered to the survey

      • Mithaldu

        I might be wrong, but: The post above there says you asked people over the last week, relative to that post. There is no link to the tabs survey in any of the posts before this one, on this blog. And there is a screenshot of Chromera with that survey open. As such i assume you used sme method to pop the survey open to Chromera users. If i am wrong, how did you ask people to fill it out?

        • http://www.tbochenek.de thorbenb

          In “Last week, some of you answered a Better Tabs survey that helped us understand how you use tabs in the Opera desktop browser” the words “Better Tabs survey” are a link to the old survey.

          • Mithaldu

            Let me emphasize the important bit:

            “There is no link to the tabs survey in any of the posts _before this one_”

            In other words: It is unclear exactly how you asked people “last week”.

          • http://www.tbochenek.de thorbenb

            Twitter, but anybody just using the blog now interested can just do the survey. Our statistics indicate that many, many people clicked the link I mentioned on the blogs.

  • Tams80

    Next up:

    “From our surveys and usage statistics, we found very few people using multiple tabs and even fewer people pin them. As so few people are using these features we have decided to remove them. If you wish to have multiple web pages open at once, you may still open multiple windows. We see this as moving Opera forward and making it a truly modern browser.

    Next week we will explain why Facebook has now been integrated into everyone’s speed dial background”

    • Fallon

      Is this a joke? Well, many folks, maybe the majority even, think internet and facebook are the same. Is this a reason to modernize Opera browser to visit one page a day? Why not make it for mobile only, that would be modern, won’t it? To service them clients hanging around bus stops. My lord.

      You are beyond redemption if cannot use your head beyond surveys and statistics.

      • http://www.tbochenek.de thorbenb

        Relax, it’s a joke ;-)

    • http://www.tbochenek.de thorbenb

      ;-)

      I can tell you with 100% certainty: That is NOT what we are doing. We are still deriving conclusions from the data, but it’s pretty clear that people use multiple tabs.

  • Fallon

    [Addition to my earlier post -->..]
    Note 1:
    I must say that I like the ‘Save Tabs as Speed Dial folder’. This comes some way to save -in an instant- temporary trips to web places].

    Note 2:
    It still leaves room for:
    - speed dial with tabs
    - a session manager, remembering both saved sessions and last 10 open sessions in editable lists.
    Note 3:
    - Maybe you can develop Stash into something better than one highlighted bookmark folder. And maybe it should be ‘Save Tabs as Stash folder’, because Stash can be searched.
    Note 4:
    Did I missing something? WHERE is the SEARCH option in bookmarks?
    It used to there above the sidebar list.
    All in all: you guys have some sorting out to do.

    • Dmitry Kirin

      4: See the extension Bookmark Search. It allows searching from the address bar, like, bm searchtext. Another extension, Chrookmarks, has a search bar.

      • rufu2

        This would be something that should be part of Opera, and not outsourced to an extension. Like in O12, when you could just type in the address field and it would give you matches from the bookmarks, too.

        But they keep telling us that bookmarks aren’t finished yet, so I hope this will be added later.

  • A. R.

    When does running all tabs in one process and tab stacking be available?

    How come Opera 12 signature features aren’t added? And I don’t meant torrent nor irc client! But those basic Opera signature features on using web. Opera used to have a fantastic interface, and most of all – customizable.

    • http://www.tbochenek.de thorbenb

      Thanks for your thoughts. Can you explain a bit how you think running all tabs in one process would improve your browsing experience?

  • Kamen Minkov

    I really hope I haven’t wasted my time filling the surveys.

  • GeX TheGreat

    I want to do middle click on place were the arrow is and get new tab opened. Is it possible to do?

    http://content.screencast.com/users/GeXu3/folders/Jing/media/d3461fe1-a280-42e7-accd-2a939f16f985/2014-06-29_0158.png

  • Tom M

    Why can I no longer set new tabs to open on the right? I don’t know how you guys are using a browser with tabs, but normal people want a tab to open in a clear, defined location (such as on the right), not in the middle of the many tabs that we may have open at any given time. This is EXTREMELY ANNOYING. This is annoying enough that I have quit using Opera altogether and I just came back to install it again to see if this annoyance has been removed.

  • http://www.twitter.com/haakoo Håkon K. Olafsen

    This might be a bit late, but maybe I’ll still get a response.

    What I miss with “New Opera” is the option to have a vertical tab bar. This is a good solution to several of the challenges I face with having lots of tabs open.

    1. I can see more of the page title in the tab bar
    2. I can have lots of tabs in the tab bar without it turning into tiny 20 pixel boxes
    3. I can utilize the screen area better (wide screen laptop have lots of vertical space, but not enough horizontal space).
    4. Easier to scan a list of tabs when you read “down”, like normal text.

    There are probably other reasons to use a vertical tab bar too.